New Knicks point guard Jalen Brunson greets New York on social media  New York Post ‘A Great Leader’: Jay Wright on What Knicks Get in Jalen Brunson  Sports IllustratedAgents – New York Knicks, Jalen Brunson agree to 4-year, $104M deal  ESPN3 Knicks players that will benefit most from Jalen Brunson free agency signing  Daily KnicksNew York Knicks: 2 trade targets if team signs Jalen Brunson  SportsnautView Full Coverage on Google News

Rejected by Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant, Knicks likely are better off  Newsday

Knicks Rumors: Mitchell, L. Rose, Brunson, Durant, Irving  hoopsrumors.comDonovan Mitchell Trade to Knicks Requires Four 1st-Round Picks?  Sports IllustratedNBA Trade Rumors: Knicks hesitant to deal major draft capital in trade for a star  Sir Charles in ChargeThe New York Knicks Are Reportedly ‘Hesitant’ To Offer The Picks And Players It Would Take To Land Donovan Mitchell  Fadeaway WorldReport: Knicks unwilling to meet asking price for Donovan Mitchell  YardbarkerView Full Coverage on Google News

2022 NBA free agency rumors: Live updates as James Harden, 76ers discuss new deal; Bulls pay Zach LaVine  CBS Sports

Donovan Mitchell Trade to Knicks Requires Four 1st-Round Picks?  Sports Illustrated

Knicks Sign Guard For Over $100 Million  Sports IllustratedNew Knicks point guard Jalen Brunson greets New York on social media  New York Post Agents – New York Knicks, Jalen Brunson agree to 4-year, $104M deal  ESPNJalen Brunson NBA free agency 2022: Point guard, Knicks agree to 4-year, $104 million deal  Yahoo SportsGrading the Knicks’ free agency signing of point guard Jalen Brunson  Daily KnicksView Full Coverage on Google News

Mets Game Fuels Donovan Mitchell Knicks Trade Speculation  Sports Illustrated

Knicks Trading Julius Randle? Or Should New York Wait?  Sports Illustrated

Novato Knicks look to past to build toward future  Marin Independent Journal

Stefan Bondy: Approaching Year 3 of Leon Rose’s regime with still no clear answers on his aptitude for the job  New York Daily News

The perfect trade Knicks must offer Nets for Kevin Durant  ClutchPoints

Raissman: Stephen A. Smith takes aim at Knicks prez Leon Rose  New York Daily News

If I’m BK, I’d try to get Maxey/Thybulle/Harris and picks for Kyrie. Then I’d maybe trade KD to Phoenix for a re-signed Ayton/Bridges/picks package. That gives you Maxey/Simmons/Bridges/O’Neale/Ayton as your starting five with a strong bench and tons of picks. Also, they could probably get a Siakam/Barnes-centered package from Toronto for KD instead if they prefer. But the question is: do you really want to be that decent or do you want to tank for Wembanyama?

That package was only there for KD, though. They wouldn’t offer Maxey for anyone but KD, I think.

The big problem for BK, as noted, is that they don’t own their own picks for the next couple of years, so tanking doesn’t help them. They luckily do own Philly’s picks for the next three seasons, I believe (two outright and one pick swap), but it might be two total. In any event, the main thing is that Brooklyn likely feels that it “has” to retool rather than rebuild.

Ah that’s right, and so maybe it doesn’t make sense to do a trade with Philly at all.

Supposedly Dallas is interested in Kyrie. Maybe if they agree to a sign and trade with us and throw us an extra asset, we could unlock their pick so they could actually formulate a trade for him?

The Lakers trade is pretty underwhelming, so I’d look elsewhere if I was Brooklyn.

From the list of top 30 BPM leaders 19 were drafted outside of the top 5.

Of the 8 players who won championships in this list only LeBron is both top 5 and won with the team that drafted him (once, while winning three rings with two other teams).

You could expand this list to top 7 or top 8 and the numbers would look better for the tanking proponents but then again do you really need to tank to get the 8th seed? The Knicks are routinely there with meaningless wins.

Disclaimer: winning at the end of the season with veterans leading the way, while most other teams play young and inexperienced players is not smart at all and it costs you opportunities.

To me, the top priority this season is to play Obi as much as possible. If what we saw at the end of the season is real, or at least attainable on a frequent basis, then he elevates the ceiling of this team more than I think a realistic version of Randle (i.e., NOLA Randle as opposed to All-NBA 2nd Team Randle) would.

The obvious solution is to start Obi and use Randle as a Sixth Man, which would not only force Thibs’ hand re: minutes but also create some more complementary lineups. Randle and RJ are not a good combination, and Randle would also be helped to play alongside a center like Hartenstein who can space the floor a bit. (Though what kind of a fit are Obi and Mitch? Have they played much together? Maybe during the periods when Noel was the starter?) For political/chemistry reasons, I can’t imagine it happening, at least not at the start of the season, but how would people feel about this depth chart?

C: Mitch/Hart PF: Obi/Randle SF: RJ/Grimes SG: Fournier/Quickley PG: Brunson/Rose

I could also be talked into swapping Grimes and Fournier, though that would create a bench mob with a lot of defensive issues.

This really saddens me, but to make our backcourt work- we probably have to move D Rose. We really need Fournier’s shooting and the durability of the Brunson/Quickley tandem at PG makes Rose more expendable than Fournier IMO. That hurts because I really appreciate Rose. I used to think he was a SG in a PG body until Thibs brought him back to NY and I saw he really operated like a true PG who is really good at scoring. Moving Rose will allow Grimes to start and there still be plenty of opportunity for Quickley and Fournier. Leon has got to send Derrick somewhere where he can chase that ring. Anywhere but Dallas in a S&T, because we need that pick to be as high as possible. If Wall didn’t sign in LA, I’d love to see Rose there. I think he’d be great in Milwaukee, Phoenix, and Golden State too. This sucks. Rose has kinda become beloved as a Knick like Spree

Though what kind of a fit are Obi and Mitch? Have they played much together?

They’ve played very well together in limited minutes.

As we’ve seen from a few different teams over the years, multiple good rim rockers make it difficult for the other team to block out both, ya know?

That looks good Alan but only if we manage to trade Cam. We gave up a first for him we have to either play him significant minutes or just send him to another team.

I think theres probably still a few more moves in the works so if we could move two of Fournier/Rose and Randle that could clear things up for the rest of the guys. If we had a rotation looking like Brunson/Grimes/RJ/Obi/Mitch and Rose/IQ/Cam/PF/Hartenstein I would be happy with that.

Overall point I agree on is that Obi, IQ and RJ are the real ceiling raisers for the team and we should do whatever we can to maximize them this season. Maybe you can add Grimes to that group as well.

Right Brian I remember thinking to myself multiple times last season that having two really good finishers in the front court must be good for a team. Why dont we try that more often.

Could be a poor mans version of Lob city.

Obis mostly a play finisher so it’s a bit awkward with another similarly oriented player in Mitch when matched up against starters…. but there is a decent chance Obi plays a lot with them mostly because there is a USG crunch with the arrival of Brunson….

there’s going to be a lot less shots going around and that probably means Fournier is probably going to be even more invisible… but also that RJ and Randle will see less shots….

someone besides IQ will be leading the bench squads because of that and I foresee a lot of staggered minutes and Randles iso plays alongside shooters like Grimes.. IQ and Hartenstein… if he’s still doing that it’ll be less bad against reserves…

I don’t really see him getting benched outright tho.. that mostly kills whatever trade value he has… and it’s speculative on whether Obi will be better off… but you can experiment with that for a few minutes a night to see how it is before committing to it…

The current roster really looks like it needs another trade.

I don’t disagree, Brian. There are three guys who could potentially be traded, but I’m not sure how likely any of them is:

1. Randle. Reasons are obvious, but does any other team want to give up anything of value for him right now, and would this FO be willing to trade him for nothing (or for someone else’s problem contract) just to get him off the roster? I’m skeptical.

2. Reddish. The coach doesn’t like him, and there isn’t a roster spot for him right now. That said, the team very much has a need for a player like Reddish — in a world where Cam Reddish actually knows how to play basketball — and his value has to be pretty damn low right now, too.

3. Fournier. He’s actually useful to a team that’s not as rich in three-point shooting as it’s been recently (mainly due to Burks trade), but he can’t/doesn’t play defense, and a trade of him would clear up a rotation spot for Cam, and/or put Grimes in the starting lineup where he can cover for some of Brunson’s defensive weaknesses. But his contract isn’t small, and it feels like we’re running out of teams with either cap space or exceptions big enough to take him. Also not sure it’s worth it to trade Fournier just to trade him, because there’s not nearly as big an addition-by-subtraction factor as there is with Randle.

I don’t think Fournier’s presence means Hrimes can’t or won’t start. With Brunson in tow and Randle presumably still on the team- I think Fournier could get just as many opportunities on the 2nd unit as he would starting- if not more. Fournier strikes me as a team or nothing guy, so I don’t think he would make waves if Grimes starts. It’s not like Grimes is gonna play 38 mpg. Fournier has to know that Grimes’ defense is a better fit with the starters than his offense is because he’s higher usage than Grimes. And if Cam gets traded- he’s got plenty of minutes at both SG and SF to make an impact. But if Rose stays, it would likely be at the cost of Fournier and we will have lost a ton of shooting between Fournier and Burks. Relative to our rotation. Reddish is definitely a wild card too. Can he hit 38% of his 3’s consistently and not take plays off on defense? Does the team want to risk having to pay him as well if he can do that? And more importantly, will Thibs ever trust him enough to give him a consistent role? Personally, I love the idea of Quickley as a combo guard off the bench and Fournier as a SG/SF off the bench. In Fournier’s case- that probably gives him less of a defensive burden to carry

Tragically, I think our best opportunity to trade Randle went out the door when Kyrie Irving Kyrie Irvinged.

FWIW, it’s possible to get Randle and Kyrie to the Lakers:

Nets get: Westbrook, THT, 2027/29 Lakers’ FRPs, 2026/28 FRP swaps

Lakers get: Kyrie, Joe Harris, Randle

Knicks get: Nunn and Gabriel (salaries, waived immediately), nominal value e.g. a 2023 second rounder from the Lakers

Obviously, there are people who would object to salary dumping Randle in this fashion. I get that and I think it’s possible he rehabilitates at least a little value.

The problem is I think it’s equally likely he further diminishes his value–the idea that it’s at an all-time low doesn’t stand up to scrutiny, if he continues to play badly it will get lower. Also, letting him try to rehabilitate his value comes at the cost of giving Obi the minutes he needs.

I wouldn’t be particularly enthused about it, but I would do this trade. Since Kyrie is one of the few professional basketball players who can credibly threaten to holdout if he’s not traded to his preferred destination, I have to think the Nets would too. The Lakers would immediately get much, much better which should be their only goal, but I have no idea whether Jeanie Buss would pay for this team.

Reddish could end up being the sweetener that helps get rid of Randle.

Geo- I’m always glad to see posts from you. I’m sorry you’ve been dealing with health issues and feel in hindsight that your posts were coming from a manic place. They never came across that way to me, just open and thoughtful. I know it’s all strangers here on some level but I’m glad this place exists and I’m very thankful that you are a part of it.

I’m also glad that this is a place we can keep each other up to date on our acid trips ha. Very underwhelming indeed seeing as it brought you here. But maybe it wasn’t the acid’s fault, it could have been the pedantic full tanking vs hybrid debate, no good trip coming out of that.

I’m a “no” about trading for Spida, barring an unrealistic low price. A star, a very good player, a very good move if you already have a 1/1-A option, not one I’ll empty my assets bank in our situation (there are maybe less than 10 players for which I could do it).

I’m expecting another trade or two and as others have said Randle, Reddish and Fournier are the three less (or no) painful names.

As an aside, Fournier is a terrible defender (Yo Cyber!), but not for lack of trying. He’s “just” hilariously slow footed and unathletic. OTOH being a smart player he’s very apt at reading passing lanes for steals (like Kemba) his STL/36 are surprising, at least for me. If he doesn’t go I see him more suitable to came off the bench with Grimes starting.

I’m very happy with the moves this offseason signing Mitch, Brunson, and Hart. I think you could very credibly run out this lineup and you’d have the pieces to see what gels. I’m hopeful that with a full training camp to figure it out, we could get to a place where the underperformers last year could increase their efficiency by decreasing Usage by not forcing things. Letting Brunson handle distribution will result in better opportunities that will be easier to convert. I really don’t see Randle, Fournier, and RJ being worse than last year, so unless there’s good value to be had in unloading them, I think their trade value shouldn’t drop much, if at all.

Randle and Obi on the same roster makes very little sense. Randle and RJ in the same lineup is also not great.

There’s almost certainly a better way to optimize the talent we have, but you can’t do it for various annoying reasons: Randle can’t come off the bench or play fewer minutes than Obi because he’ll sulk, you can’t move Fournier to the bench because he’s a veteran, and so on.

So we’re probably stuck with an ill-fitting Brunson/Fournier/RJ/Randle/Mitch starting lineup and a bench squad of Rose/IQ/Grimes/Obi/Hartenstein that will probably have to spend the whole season erasing the deficits caused by the starting lineup. So like last year, but with a couple of better players.

In terms of a trade that I think would actually help us, what would it cost to get Brandon Clarke and Jon Konchar from Memphis? I think if we also took back Danny Green then Fournier would work. I’m not Sure if a trade around Randle would work… but I would definitely trade picks to make that happen. I think Clarke would be a great fit next to Hart right now and should grow into more, and I’ve always been a believer in Konchar and he’s been proving it lately. And neither has been getting their due minutes in Memphis…

Idk maybe Portland will go for Randle if they get desperate. They have not collected enough win-now pieces yet to make Dane happy.

I absolutely hate how this “new” coverage of sports is so saturated that outlets have to resort to ridiculous click-baiting techniques and what not. I just scrolled past an article with the headline “NY Knicks sign former LA Clippers star”

Seriously? So we’re calling role players that come off the bench “stars” now? Hmph…explains alot I guess. Duncan Robinson contract..Royce O’Neale trade for a first..Gobert essentially going for 5 1sts and a great perimeter defender

Oh..by the way- Jokic is underpaid. That guy is ridiculously good. His name does not come up enough in “best player in the world” conversations

In terms of a trade that I think would actually help us, what would it cost to get Brandon Clarke and Jon Konchar from Memphis?

a time machine and good sense

Dragic just signed with Chicago, when everyone assumed he would be going to Dallas. Two potential trickle downs of that:

1. Coby White is probably on the trading block and can almost certainly be had for cheap. I’m not interested with our current roster makeup (as is, it’ll take an injury or two for IQ to get real point guard minutes), but maybe something to consider if we make more trades.

2. Dallas now definitely needs a PG to lead their second unit while Dinwiddie starts in place of Brunson. Suddenly, they may be motivated to actually do the sign-and-trade thing if it results in them getting Derrick Rose.

Day One: The East is big, man.

Drove like a banshee from deepest, darkest Maine and only made it to west-central-New York. Felt as efficient and productive as a Julius spin move.

Most interesting thing is how fast people drive now. I averaged 78 mph mostly in 65 mph areas, but four out of five cars passed me. Some of them went by so fast that I felt like Evan Fournier on D. When did 90+ become the new 70?

“2. Dallas now definitely needs a PG to lead their second unit while Dinwiddie starts in place of Brunson. Suddenly, they may be motivated to actually do the sign-and-trade thing if it results in them getting Derrick Rose.”

Definitely interesting, but sadly I kind of feel like we’re keeping Rose. This front office/coach doesn’t seem enamored with IQ at point guard for better or worse, so I think Rose will be Brunson’s full time back up. Also as I understand the “plan,” we are trying to win as much as possible in 2022-2023 and if healthy and/or not washed (both big ifs) Rose still projects to be one of our better players.

How funny would it be if the Warriors traded Wiseman, Kuminga, Poole and Wiggins for Durant?

Also as I understand the “plan,” we are trying to win as much as possible in 2022-2023….

I think you might need a break from your bar studies. It’s the wrong plan, there is no plan, now there is a “plan”…

Trying to win as many games as possible is not a plan. It is the reason you have a plan.

Yeah I doubt we’re trading Rose at this point hes the vet I think is most likely to remain. Fournier being moved makes the most sense since IQ, Grimes and RJ will play and theres no room for Cam otherwise.

a time machine and good sense

Ha yes, I remember those draft nights well. But let’s say Leon is willing to pay to make up for the mistakes of the past. It’s one year of Clarke’s rookie deal and two years of Konchar, and neither played 1300 minutes last year so they might not be valuing them like their numbers would indicate…

They will have to spend a lot of money to retain other talent, and they’re a small market so they might not have the budget to pay what it should take to retain them.They might be more of a destination now with Ja, but they might still see an advantage in trading for proven veterans like Fournier or even Randle. I think two of the future protected firsts could be enough…

I don’t think trading Randle is a choice at this point. He needs to be gone, this team cannot move forward and will not be good as long as he is here. He is playing in front of potentially our best young player and as long as he is here we will never truly know what we have in Toppin.

We also need to move at least one of Rose or Fournier. With both of them here it squeezes Reddish, IQ, and Grimes for minutes and while I do not think terribly highly of Reddish’s prospects we need to give him real minutes so we can make a decision on him next summer.

I would prefer us to move Rose, he is easier to trade, he is a worse three-point shooter, his injury history makes him less reliable, he is in the way of IQ’s development, and I am tired of rooting for players with questionable character.

I think Fournier would accept a bench role and with Randle and Rose gone, we would have plenty of minutes for IQ, Grimes, Toppin, and Reddish. Getting them all minutes should be our highest priority next season.

Polyanna Reminder Even the players we want to get rid off are quite tradeable and not albatrosses at all!

Here’s a gift for Strat, from Marc Stein: “Frank Ntilikina’s $2 million contract for next season becomes guaranteed tomorrow and the Mavericks’ intention, league sources say, is indeed to retain the former Knicks lottery pick.”

It’s amazing how fast this blog goes into negative mode. It’s morning here and a lot of the comments from last night (your day) are like “now we have to get rid of this player”. Teams usually want multiple good players at each position both to have a good second string and in case of injuries. But here a lot of people don’t seem to think this way. I’m happy to read discussions about who should start and who should back up. I’d like also to hear what players people think we need or ones we should go after. If you’re not happy with the roster, where does it need improvement?

Alan, I’m not surprised Ntilikina’s option will be picked up. As Hollinger and Duncan said, if Dinwiddie takes over Brunson’s role they need someone to take over Dinwiddie’s old role. The only guy they have for that is Frank.

Scotty Pippen Jr playing well in the early summer league, I think he has a shot at making the Lakers. He’s small, but he’s a legit good basketball player and their roster is atrocious

I do think the Knicks have some modest moves to make before they are done this off season. But they are not going to be big name moves. Instead they probably are seeing if they can turn Brunson into a sign and trade in a way that helps them. Also, they have to figure out the end of their bench. They don’t seem to have signed Keels yet, and they also haven’t yet converted Sims to a full contract. They are probably waiting to see what happens with the possible sign and trade before making those moves. Also, by my count, they only have four forwards unless you count Hint and Gibson as backup forwards. They might want more depth than that.

I just returned from the wilderness, I seem to have missed a lot, huh? (From glancing over the past few threads just now I have gleaned that: 1) the Rick Brunson gambit paid off; 2) the Charlie Ward “curse” is over (though a curse is something you can’t avoid, not a policy you create for yourself and stubbornly follow along with for twenty-plus years); 3) TNFH remains unimpressed; 4) Raven is on a road trip, but, unlike mine, still has WiFi.

Anything else happen this week I should know about?

Even the players we want to get rid off are quite tradeable and not albatrosses at all!

If Randle is “quite tradeable,” then they should, you know, do that.

“Anything else happen this week I should know about?”

there’s some bad acid going around..if you buy some…check the sell by date…

And apparently Dallas is pissed, so we may or may not turn the Brunson signing into a sign and trade. I’m talking about Dallas management being pissed. Dallas fans seem to mostly blame their management and ex management. The fans are correct. We would feel the same way if our management had been cheap and lost Robinson to free agency for nothing in return.

Speaking of folks driving through upstate NY, I’ve been back in NY for a week. Mostly upstate to check on my property and seek legal help for a problem tenant who’s in the way of me putting the property on the market. Right now I’m in Poughkeepsie visiting family for the 4th. Then back up to the ‘Cuse for a few more days b4 I fly back to LA on Friday. Hopefully this coming week will go better than last week, which began with me being “stranded” in NYC due to a cancelled connection flight to ‘Cuse and having to wait 24 hrs for the next one. I say “stranded” bc I was put up in a hotel overnight, and thankfully my brother only lives 40 min away from JFK.

Cringe alert Trading Randle and Fournier at the right time should be like eating ice cream at the right temperature! No deepfreezy neither melted Just like heaven!

And there’s always the rare possibility of a miracle where Fournier sees Jean d Arc in his sleep telling him to play fiery D while Randle visits Aghion Oros and becomes team oriented and calm as a monk without spinning around! Then you can keep them both!

Having multiple good players at a position is good if you have a good coach and good management. Unfortunately we have neither. Thibs cannot be trusted to play Toppin over Randle or IQ over Rose and our management cannot be trusted to support Thibs if he, by some miracle, does and Randle or Rose has a meltdown.

Plus, we cannot trust our management to choose Toppin and IQ over Rose and Randle when a trade opportunity comes around. We need to get the obstacles out of their way so they can have the opportunity to break out if they are able.

There’s also the important question about whether Randle is even a good player or not, and last season leads me to believe the answer is simply no. You can’t pay a player with Randle’s last season production the amount of money the Knicks are paying just because we need depth. You can replace Randle’s production from last season with much, much smaller contracts, it’s not a question of depth, but one of asset management and cost / production.

I’ve been saying that I don’t want him to be on the Knicks roster at all and I’d dump him for any realistic offer basically, but I just don’t think it’s going to happen, so we’re left with hoping that he can somehow recover his form. I also don’t trust Thibs but that’s also a moot point as he will be our coach to start the season 100%.

there’s some bad acid going around..if you buy some…check the sell by date…

I got high, but everyone else was in another dimension

The move might be to package Mitch with Fournier or Randle. Let Hartenstein and Sims play C.

Hartenstein’s high-post game is the perfect complement to Obi’s roll and drive game once he starts.

Bird, i think Mitch’s signing fits this rule, and because of that he can’t be traded. Unless you’re talking about a sign and trade.

If the signing of a new contract with a “Bird” or “Early Bird” free agent causes a team’s team salary to exceed the salary cap and the player’s first-year salary in that new contract is more than 120% above the player’s salary in the prior season, then the player may not be traded until the later of 3 months after they sign or January 15.

You mean the same management that just admitted it’s own mistakes and trades Kemba, Noel and Burks to open up playing time for our younger players.

The impatience in this blog sometimes…

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